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We explore the vital intersection of organisational design, leadership culture, and power dynamics with special guest Susannah Robinson, author of Beyond the Boxes and Lines.
Zoë kicks off the episode with exciting updates on the Power Games Kickstarter campaign and a groundbreaking Planet Human segment on brain-computer interfaces that enable near real-time speech interpretation for paralysed individuals.
Then we dive into the conversation with Susannah, who brings over 30 years of HR and organisational design experience. She shares practical frameworks for rethinking job roles, enhancing collaboration, and resolving structural friction in organisations. Together, we unpack what causes cultural breakdowns, the consequences of poorly implemented matrix structures, and why flatter hierarchies may not be the magic bullet many leaders believe they are.
Planet Human
Summary
Zoë shares personal updates:
Planet Human Breakthrough – Brain-Computer Interfaces have taken a major leap forward. Zoë discusses a breakthrough where a paralysed woman’s thoughts are translated into speech in real time, raising profound questions about communication, autonomy, and future possibilities.
Power Games Launch & Kickstarter – Zoë reflects on the release of her fifth nonfiction book Power Games and its central thesis: that we must learn to work with power, not avoid it. She gives a behind-the-scenes look at the campaign, reward tiers, and why the workbook and workshops are especially timely for leaders navigating drama and influence in teams. Go the Kickstarter campaign here.
The High-Performing Team Bicycle – Zoë introduces her signature model for team and inter-team culture, built on five key components: purpose, performance, structure, strengths, and safety. A practical framework for leaders ready to reimagine what high-functioning collaboration looks like.
Challenging How We Do Culture – An invitation to stop assuming that team dynamics will ‘just work’. Instead, Zoë calls for conscious design: how we structure, empower, and align teams around values and purpose.
Thought-Provoking Questions for Leaders, focusing on:
What invisible structures in your organisation are shaping culture—for better or worse?
When a staff member resigns, do you simply refill the role, or use it as a prompt for re-evaluation?
How might structure be enabling power games, or preventing team clarity?
Where are your handoff points—and are they helping or hindering team performance?
What would it take for people to feel safe enough to challenge assumptions in your workplace?
Susannah Robinson reflects on:
Organisation as Ecosystem – Organisational design is more than structure. It’s a living system of job design, employee practices, and culture that influences everything from customer experience to strategic outcomes.
Structure vs. Culture Problems – CEOs often misdiagnose structural issues when the true barrier lies in unclear roles or ineffective systems. Susannah outlines a simple yet powerful method for reviewing design when someone exits the team.
Job Design as Leverage Point – The greatest opportunity to improve team dynamics starts with the role itself—how it’s structured, how it connects, and whether it aligns with organisational goals.
When Matrix Structures Backfire – Susannah shares how poorly executed matrix systems foster office politics, competing priorities, and disempowerment—especially when accountability is blurred.
Building Teams that Work – From predictive index insights to practical onboarding strategies, Susannah unpacks how to move from lone-wolf cultures to resilient, collaborative teams—without triggering resistance or fear.
Key Quotes
"When the person leaves the role, we finally take the lid off the pot and discover everything they were actually doing." – Susannah Robinson
"Leadership today isn’t just about giving direction, it's about managing your impact." – Susannah Robinson
"Collaboration needs good structure. Culture is the bridge." – Zoë Routh
Questions Explored
What triggers the need for a redesign of organisational structures?
How can job design improve retention and employee engagement?
What are the common friction points in team handoffs and collaboration?
How do flatter hierarchies shift leadership expectations?
What structural patterns lead to power struggles and office politics?
How should leaders handle stonewalling behaviour in the workplace?
Take Action
Audit your structure. When someone leaves, resist the urge to simply refill the role. Ask: could we do this differently?
Map job design. Identify overlaps, friction points, and gaps in role clarity especially where handoffs occur.
Assess your collaboration culture. Are your incentive systems and tools aligned with teamwork, or unintentionally rewarding lone wolves?
Educate your teams. Use visual tools (like “five guys, one piano” teamwork analogy or org charts) to demystify structure and process.
Normalise discomfort. Have the hard conversations about misalignment, underperformance, or mismatched roles with compassion and clarity.
Tip of the Week
Before you flatten your hierarchy or shift to team-based models, first ensure your systems (incentives, tools, contracts) are designed to support that culture. Otherwise, you’re simply rearranging the dysfunction.
Key Moments
00:00 Introduction and Weekly Question
00:16 Exciting Advances in Brain-Computer Interfaces
01:41 Introducing 'Power Games' Book Launch
04:11 Strategies for High-Performing Teams
06:21 Interview with Susanna Robinson on Organisational Design
19:42 Exploring Organisational Structures
20:16 The Concept of Hollow Organisations
21:27 Visualizing Organisational Models
23:00 Flattening Hierarchies: Pros and Cons
25:32 Encouraging Team-Based Environments
28:06 Barriers to Collaboration
29:44 Office Politics and Power Games
31:52 Quickfire Leadership Insights
33:15 Handling Employee Stonewalling
35:35 Conclusion and Resources
About Susannah Robinson
Susannah Robinson, founder and President of Partnership for Talent LLC, brings 30+ years of leadership expertise in HR, communications, investor relations, and business management. Known for catalyzing organizational change and nurturing leaders, her wealth of knowledge and trusted guidance shine through. As a fractional Chief Talent Officer and executive partner, she boosts startups and mid-sized companies with strategic HR solutions. Certified with SPHR, she also teaches Organizational Design at Northeastern University’s College of Professional Studies. In her coaching practice, Susannah supports leaders in developing the skills necessary to effectively and empathetically lead their teams to exceptional business results.
founder and President of Partnership for Talent LLC, bringing over 30 years of leadership expertise in HR, communications, investor relations, and business management. She's also the author of the upcoming book "Beyond the Boxes and Lines: Are You Ready For The Next Step."
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About Zoë Routh
Zoë Routh is a leadership futurist, podcaster, and multiple award-winning author. She works with leaders and teams to navigate future horizons.
She has worked with individuals and teams internationally and in Australia since 1987. From wild Canadian rivers to the Australian Outback, and the Boardroom jungles, Zoë is an adventurist! She facilitates strategy and culture sessions with audacious teams.
Zoë's fourth leadership book, People Stuff - Beyond Personality Problems: An advanced handbook for leadership, won the Book of the Year at the Australian Business Book Awards in 2020. Her fifth book is a near future science fiction dystopian novel, The Olympus Project.
Zoë is the producer of the The Future of Leadership Podcast dedicated to asking “What if…?” and sharing Big Ideas on the Future of Leadership.
Zoë is an outdoor adventurist and enjoys telemark skiing, has run six marathons, is a one-time belly-dancer, has survived cancer, and loves hiking in the high country. She is married to a gorgeous Aussie and is a self-confessed dark chocolate addict.